Thursday, July 14, 2005

Flatbush Eruv

I came across this booklet discussing the halachic issues regarding the Flatbush Eruv.

Recently, I've noticed a strong campaign where flyers proclaiming the eruv to be posul were mass-mailed in Brooklyn. I assume that this would be in response, or to counteract, a similar large push to legitimize the Flatbush Eruv.

I haven't really read this yet. Have anyone of you?

(I did read Rabbi Wosner's haskama so far. Strong stuff)

53 Comments:

At 12:49 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The booklet that the anti eruv people mailed is a nice picture book for the kids. While the booklet from those pro eruv is well done.

 
At 8:43 AM, Blogger Just Passing Through said...

...but, but..they're pictures of gedolim. Shouldn't that be enough?!

 
At 1:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's enough for my children’s gedolim collection. The Community Eruv booklet seems to be written by talmedei chachamim.

 
At 1:11 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

picture book omitted main part of Reb Moshe's tshuva 4:87, where he states openly:his ruling is not clear cut because all the Achronim( Jewish sages for past 400 years) disagree with him. In next letter 4:88 he writes the Shulchan Aurach (written 500 years ago and excepted as a supreme authority on Jewish Law )also opposes his views.

 
At 1:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sefer ERUV VHOTZAH published in 1908 with letters from seven leading sages in that generation(not signatures), explaining in detail reasons for permitting eruvin in Manhattan, was republished 25 years ago: and is available by writing P.O.B.786 Woodbourne, N Y 12788 and enclosing $5.00.
Their ruling, after a detailed discussion was: rivers and oceans surronding Manhattan are like walls surronding it. This same ruling applies to Brooklyn surrounded by water on three sides. Giving it a status of a walled city. With one wall broken. Therefore, an eruv can be made there.

 
At 1:58 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I might add. Brooklyn is like a street, enclosed by walls on three sides, which is a private domain according to Jewish Law.
There is no difference between a street enclosed on three sides, where everyone makes an eruv, to a city enclosed on three sides.
Poskim rule: if one can walk to these walls on Shabbos, or stand on a tall building, on a clear day, and see them, he is enclosed by them.
This is discussed in detail in afore mentioned book.

 
At 4:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

RABBI SHIAH T. DIRECTOR
25 Chalet Vim Road
P.O.B.786
Woodbourne,NY 12788


Honored Rabbis and Roshei Yeshiva:
Your picture booklet, against eruvin in Brooklyn, distributed there, does not quote one word from the Talmud, Reshonim and Achronim. You only quote Reb Moshe Feinstein, of blessed memory, however, he was not the only one who wrote on this subject.
More, so, he states in Igros Moshe (4:87): his ruling is not a clear cut absolute ruling, because, it was not accepted by the Achronim. There (4:88)he states: what he says is not like ruling of the Shulchan Aurach.
Therefore, please explain why you state in this booklet: "carrying on Shabbos is contrary to laws of our Torah"?
What source did you find stating afore mentioned? I would like to know how you arrived at this ruling,"after extensive deliberations"? And,condem Torah loving Jews, who follow the Shulchan Aurach and poskim.

Sincerly,
S.Director

 
At 11:32 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I might add, with all due respect, Reb Moshe's statements are very weird, never found any where in works of our poskim.
Stating: his ruling is against the Shulchan Aurach,(supreme authority on Jewish Law for 500 years): and,one can follow it: but, it's proper to be "machmer" like he writes, is a very weird illogical statement.
Because, we don't need him to tell us one can follow ruling of the Shulcan Aurach, followed by Jewish people for 500 years. Chidah states (Shen Hagedolim under title Bes Yoseph): 200 noted Torah sages in his generation accepted his rulings as absolute.
Therefore, what valid reason is there to be "machmer" according to Reb Moshe, when his reasoning was not accepted by the Shulchan Aurach? These are very weird statements. Because, if the author of the Shulchan Aurach felt one should be "machmer" he would have stated so. Obviously, he rules one should not be "machmer". Not like Reb Moshe. Therefore, there is no logical valid reason to be "machmer".
Nevertheless, those against eruvin in Brooklyn, are publicizing Reb Moshe's ruling as absolute. Against the Shulchan Aurach, and against what he wrote(ibid.).

 
At 7:31 PM, Anonymous SHIAH DIRECTOR said...

Rabbi Sharfman, Rabbi of Toung Israel of Flatbush, mentioned in Igros Moshe 4:87, told me. After Reb Moshe, of blessesd memory, told him he does not want to be involved in their eruv project, he asked him if he can rely on poskim who disagre with him,and make an eruv. Reb Moshe answered: YES. HE THEN ASKED REB MOSHE IF HE COULD ASK HIM QUESTIONS HE HAD ABOUT CONSTRUCTION OF THIS ERUV. REB MOSHE REPLIED: SURE ASK ME WHATEVER YOU WANT. HE GOT DETAILED INSTRUCTIONS FROM HIM ON HOW TO MAKE THIS ERUV.
In a conversation, I had with Rav Tuviah Goldstein, of blessed memory, 4 years ago, he told me, he asked Reb Moshe about eruvin in Brookly, Reb Moshe told him: he is not against those who follow rulings of the Shulchan Aurach and all poskim and make an eruv.
Rav Menasha Klein asked Reb Moshe if he can make an eruv in Boro Park. He told him that he can make one there. His ruling, was published in a booklet by Rav Menasha Klein, and 5,000 copies were distributed.
Therefore, any publicity against eruvin in Brooklyn,in the name of Reb Moshe,is a lie. His signature on proclamation, and letters, against what he told prominent Rabbonim, and published in Igros Moshe 4:87-88-89, were forged.

 
At 1:17 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

25 years ago letters (not signatures)from 19 prominent poskinm in Brooklyn approving of eruvin in Brooklyn were published in a weekly The Torah World. Their letters were also published in a Torah journal in the Holy City of Jerusalem (Otzrotos Yerushaliam). Later 5,000 copies were published and distributed in Brooklyn. However, it was never distributed door to door in Boro Pk. or Flatbush. Therefore, most people don't know about it. More, so 25 years after it was first printed.
However, rabbonim approving of eruvin in Boro Pk. and Flatbush, have these letters, and relied on them when approving eruvin. They also have inmportant works from great sages, living
100 yeas ago, approving of eruvin in large cities, one about the erev in Manhatten in 1908, reprinte recently by this writer. All are available by sending $25.00 to P.O.B. 786, Woodbourne, N Y 12788.
While anti-eruv people print colored pictures to hoodwink the masses. Holy sages in our generation learn Torah, and aforementioned literature, and print books, essays, and lecture on this subject to educate the public.
May the ALMIGHTY have mercy on his holy people a save them from hoodwinkers.

 
At 12:42 AM, Anonymous shiah director said...

In reality, those protesting aginst eruvin in Brooklyn, and signing on posters against eruvin there,are signing and protesting against Reb Moshe Feinstein, and other great sages in our generation, and previous generations, who permitted eruvin an all large cities including Brooklyn.

 
At 5:30 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

information and documents about eruvin in Brooklyn can be obtained by fax no.718-4387411

 
At 7:59 PM, Anonymous kaspit said...

Thank you for covering this. I’m still awed by the degree of bitterness and dispute over the eruv. I’ve linked to this post from a piece about making a small eruv in Flatbush. Take care.

 
At 2:47 AM, Anonymous shiah director said...

Recently a booklet was publeshed about eruvin in Brooklyn, containing facts unknown to the public, and was distributed door to door in Flatbush.
If anone wants this booklet: "LETTERS BY RABBI SHIAH DIRECTOR" . Weite to P.O.B. 786, WOODBOURNE, N Y 12788

 
At 2:19 PM, Blogger Coin said...

Reviewed this LETTERS BY RABBI SHIAH.
IMHO, fairly poor grammar and possibly an issurei loshon hora according to
Shmiras HaLoshon, Sha'ar-Ha'Zechira Chs. 15-17.
May wish to look into last matter more carefully!!!

 
At 6:17 PM, Anonymous shiah director said...

There is no issuer of loshon hara if one advises the public about lies spread by anti-eruv people. More, so, everyone has an obligation to educate the public: and make them aware of facts unknowen to them.
Many times the Rivad uses sharp words when arguing with the Rambam. Same is true of other Reshonim, and achronim, who want to deliver a message to the public. This form of expression is very common in works of our sages of blessed memory. More, so it is a holy obligation to fight forces of evil, and condemn them, more, so, liars.
Did Dovid Hamelich speak loshon hara when he prayed to the Almighty: those who lie must be destroyed, in mamy places in Tehilim ? To name a few places see: Thillim 5:7, 12:4, and 8. When talking about liars don't worry about loshon hora. Issuer loshon hora was givin to prevent on from talking about pious God fearing people.

 
At 6:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

correctoin on next to last line of previous post. Should read ONE

 
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At 9:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

See website: "Flatbush eruv Shiah Director" for more information on eruvin in Brooklyn. Also, see:Avodah vol.14.

 
At 8:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Picture book is a pack of lies. Common for anti-eruv people.
Rav Chiam Kenevesky, cited there as one against eruvin in Brooklyn, rules explicitly like his uncle (mothers brother) the Chazon Ish. Who ruled there is not a reshus harabim in all large cities. Because, all cities have dead end streets, closed on three sides, which makes it a reshus hayocid. Therefore, any street connecting to it is also a reshus hayochid. Rav Shmuel Wosner, cited in picture book, as one against eruvin in Brookly, also holds this view.
Unknown to the Chazon Ish. Sefer Tiv Yehosuah, published in 1900, states his ruling.He also states. When in Yerusaliam, he showed his book to gedolei Torah there, they praised it, and agreed with his ruling.Tiv Yehoshuah was republished in 1979.

 
At 1:59 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Those from Brooklyn appearing in pictire booklet are not in any form or fasion greater than Reb Yosef Ciro, who ruled in the Shulchan Aurach, an area encolsed by walls, like Brooklyn, is a private domain (reshus hayochid).Therefore, any opposition to eruvin in Brooklyn, is stupidity.Anyone taking a ride around Brooklyn can see these walls. It's an obvious fact. Even if one thinks, he sees breaks in these walls, which is only a figment of his imagination, we rule: if most of a wall is standing it's still a wall according to Jewish Law.

 
At 2:24 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why ant-eruv people continue to lie is dumbfounding. Sefer Hacinuch states(mitzva74) there is nothing more degrading than one who lies. He states: he will forever be cursed by the ALMIGHTY. Those who lie should read complete text of the Chinuch. Maybe his holy words will help them to speak the truth.

 
At 6:49 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A very reliable person told me, he spoke with Rabbi Bomzer, a rov in Flatbush, he said Reb Moshe told him openly to make an eruv in Flatbush. He told Rav Menasha Klein to make an eruv in Boro Park. In 1981 he published a 46 page booklet, explaining clear cut reasons, never refuted,permitting establishing an eruv in Boro Park, and all of Brooklyn. In this booklet conversation he had with Reb Moshe Feinstein (of blessed memory)telling him to make an eruv in Boro Park, was recorded. 5,000 copies were distributed via mail.
Rabbi Sharfman, refered to in Igros Moshe 4:87, (see previous posts)told me, many times he went to Reb Moshe, and asked him to give him a letter stating he can make an eruv in Flatbush, as he told him (see previous posts), so he can show it to anti-eruv people and otheres. He refused.
Rebitzen Feinstein told him. The Rov would give you a letter. But, Rav Elberg, from Agudas Harabbonim, WILL COME EVERY DAY, AND BOTHER THE ROV FOR TWO HOURES, ASKING HIM TO WRITE ANOTHER LETTER, REFUTING WHAT HE WROTE.
Reb Moshe was in favor of making an eruv in Brooklyn. But, he was under pressure from Agudas Harabbonim, and other anti-eruv people. Therefore, he just told this to people who asked him. His obligation according to our HOLY TORAH. Was to answer questions posed to him correctly. But, he did not feel he had an obligation to put this in writing.

S.DIRECTOR

 
At 2:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Coin: sorry you don't like grammer in booklet "Letters From Woodbourne", correct it, and sent me a check for $2,000, and I'll distribute it again, with your corrections. I did the best I could. Never went to college: nor, did I finish high school. Was busy learning Torah. However, I felt a moral obligatation to publicize facts written in this booklet, unknown to the public, in any form. Important points discussed in booklet are understandable. Poor grammar is not an excuse for not publicizing the truth.

 
At 11:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

KASPIT: you state in post you are "awed over degree of bitterness" over the eruv. Let me tell you history of Flatbush Eruv so you will understand why this is so.
50 years ago there was no mikva in Flatbush. Women went to Boro Park mikvos. Robbonim of Flatbush decided they should have a mikva in the neighborhood. They went to Yasser Rov, a recognized posek in Flatbush, and asked him to make a mikva for them. Which he did. Mikva, on East 13th Street, was under his supervision until he passed away.
When they decided to make an eruv, in 1979, they also went to the Yasser Rov. He called a meeting in his Bais Medrash to discuss the matter with other poskim in Flatbush. They decided to send letters to other poskim in Brooklyn and hear their opinion. Proper path to take.
A collel student, not a rov, and not a posek, decided, without talking to anyone, it's osser to make an eruv in Brooklyn. He went to many Rabbonim and told them lies.
1. "Modern Rabbonim" want to make an eruv: and they are forbiden to make one. They don't know laws of eruvin. The masses will be "mchallal Shabbos". Not telling them, reliable poskim, were discussing this matter.
2. He told them Reb Moshe Feinstein is against eruvin in Brooklyn. A lie. See previous posts.
Without investigating, their holy obligation, many rabbonim signed on a document against eruvin in Brooklyn. This document was widely publicized. In the street, in Yeshivos, and in newspapers. Reb Moshe's false isser became poular. Everyone knew about it.
When Rav Menasah Klein got letter sent out after meeting in Yasser Rov's Bais Medrash. He went to Reb Moshe to discuss the matter. Reb Moshe told him he's not against eruvin in Brooklyn. The're spreading lies in my name. He also told him he can make an eruv in Boro Park.See previous posts.
However, the damage was done. Thousands were spent every week proclaiming an isser in name of Reb Moshe.Everyone knew about it. It became common knowledge: Reb Mosah is against eruvin.
Rabbonim discussing this matter, Yasser Rov and others, didn't want to fight with anti-eruv people. They stopped discussing the subject.
Rav Sharfman, with other Rabbonim of Flatbush, went to Reb Moshe, and asked him about eruv in Flatbush. SEE PREVIOUS POSTS.
They made an eruv there. Listening to Reb Moshe: and, ignoring ant-eruv
protests, against what he told them. But, the damage was done. Publicity against eruvin was very strong. I lived in Flatbush then. It was mind bogling to see all the lies against eruvin. Publicized every week.
Lies publicized against eruvin,in 1979, were common talk in all yeshivos in Flatbush. Rav S.M. Kalminovitz, from Mir Yeshiva in Flatbush, signed against eruvin. Without first discussing the matter with Reb Moshe. Same is true of all the others who signed this document.
That's why there is strong opposition to eruvin. Lies have been taught in all yeshivos for the past 26 years.

SHIAH DIRECTOR

 
At 10:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

1979 proclamation against eruvin with 50+ signatures is one lie on top of another. Everyone laughs at it except yeshiva bochrim in Flatbush, and others, who were exposed to non stop lies for many years.
1. There are eruvin in many parts of Brooklyn, Park Slope, Brighton, Bensonherst etc. People there use them. No one protests against them. Because, ant-eruv people did not have funds or manpower to publicize their lies all over. In Flatbush,in 1979-80, there were yeshiva bochrim, in the streets, passing out leaflets against eruvin, proclaiming lies. Many there were hoodwinked.
2.In 1979 proclamation against eruvin, with 50+ signatures, it states: it's forbiden to make an eruv in any city where 600,000 people live. There are over 100 eruvin in the United States and Canada. Many of these cities have more than 600,000 people. To name a few: Detroit, Chicage, Los Angeles, Boston, Denver, Toronto, Canada.
Nonsense stated there is completely ignored by Rabbonim in U. S. A. and Canada.
3. Stated there: Reb Moshe Feinstein was against eruvin in Brooklyn, and according to what's stated in poster with 50+ signatures, he was against eruvin in any city with 600,000 people. An open lie. SEE PREVIOUS POSTS.
4. Stated there: his prohabition against eruvin is printed in his sefer Igros Moshe. No such thing is stated there. It's an open lie. Even if 50+ CREEPS who call themselves Rabbonim signed on it. Who told them to sign on a document before investigating if it's true. A collel student who is neither a rov, or a posek, who had a BUG IN HIS BRAIN against eruvin.
5. Torah, wisdom of the ALMIGHTY, is an exact sience. Every law in the Torah learned, or publicized, must be researched, checked, and rechecked. Would a doctor perform an operaton in the basis of what this one or that one told him. NO! He makes tests. Only after checking, and rechecking, does he perfom an operation. Would a doctor indorse a new method of heart surgery by the stroke of his pen. NO! He does research first.
Why then is GOD'S HOLY TORAH DIFFERENT? Answer is. Those signing against eruvin, on a document with open lies, don't believe in GOD or his Torah. They think GOD'S HOLY TORAH is some kind of game. Not one who signed on this document said: come back I want to think about it: or, I want to study the subject and then rule on it. They just signed. They think, TORAH toiled on by super genious minds, for generations,desolves, by the stroke of their pen.
Others think publishing pictures desolves Torah Law.
NO! Super genius writings from holy sages for the past 200 years, and more, will remain forever. Those writing against them will desolve.
Because, the ALMIGHTY decreed: TORAH WILL NOT BE FORGOTEN FROM CLALL YISROEL. We say this in our prayes every day.
May the ALMIGHTY have mercy on HIS HOLY PEOPLE.

SHIAH DIRECTOR

 
At 10:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Letter about eruv in Flatbush written after meeting in Yasser Rov's Bais Medrash(see previous post)
was published by the undersigned in a booklet, in 5760, and is available. Therein, it states openly: Rabbonim of Flatbush want to abide by rulings of reliable poskim. Had this matter been discussed by them there never would have been any opposition to the Flatbush eruv made by "MODERN RABBONIM". Because, their eruv would have been under strict supervision of most reliable poskim in Brooklyn.
Amazing! 50+ Rabbonim signed on a document without first checking into the matter(see previous posts). Amazing! Mikva that these "MODERN RABBONIM" made, on East 15th street, is used by most observent women, Chasedesha and Litvasha. WHY? Because, "MODERN RABBONIM" only gave the money to build it. They had nothing to do with it's construction. Also, no one ran around to Rabbonim saying this mikva is possel. If someone did this no one would use the mikva there. But, some one found STUPID Rabbonim(with all due respect), to sign on a document against eruvin, when the same Rabbonim who made the Flatbusdh mikva, on E.15th Street, all women use, were planning to make an eruv there. Their mikva is used by thousands of women each year. So, why can't thousands of peoiple use the eruv in Flatbush they were planning to make?
Answer is: eruv isser is STUPIDITY on top of STUPIDITY:and LIES on top of LIES.

SHIAH T. DIRECTOR

 
At 10:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Recently, a 20 page booklet, "ERUV ISSER AN ANALYSIS" , by Rabbi Shiah Director,containg information on Flatbush eruv, unknown to the general public, was published.Therein are copies of letters sent to anti-eruv Rabbonim in Flatbush,in 5764, politly asking them to explain reason they are against eruvin there. No one answered.
Also explained there is the absolute undisputable fact: all opposition to eruvin in Flatbush is nonsense.
For your free copy (donations are welcome) write P.O.B. 786, Woodbourne, N Y 12788.

S. DIRECTOR

 
At 6:51 AM, Anonymous shiah director said...

For more information on eruvin see website: www.israel613.com,and click ERUV.

 
At 6:56 PM, Anonymous shiah director said...

It's time anti- eruv people learned the subject of eruvin before voicing an opinion. Obviously, not one of them have learned TSHUVOS from GEDOLEI HADOROS, who were bigger tham R. MOSHE FEINSTEIN.OBM. A THOSAND FOLD. Therefore they yell like idiots R. Moshe said it's osser to make an eruv in Brookly. Fact is they never learned what he said. They rule fron posters. Because he never wrote this. It's a grave sin to proclaim false rulings more so because one was too lazy to learn the subject in in IGROS MOSHE.

 
At 9:22 AM, Anonymous shiah director said...

Reb Moshe'S chidush is found nowere in poskim. They all rule 600,000 people must travel on one street in one day for a city to be a Reshus Harabim. 30,000,000 living in a city do not make this city a Reshus Harabim. Because 600,000 people must travel on one street in one day. This is rulinmg of Shulchan Aurach(345).
It's time discussions about Reb Moshe's ruling, against all poskim S T O P P ED It's time the public came to their sences.
When discussing his ruling, one must understand, he's discussing a ruling against all poskim. Which has no practical validity .

 
At 11:30 PM, Anonymous shiah director said...

A vast amount of literature is available.Many of these works were cited in previous posts. There is more. Lazyness to learn this literature is not an excuse for isssuing false rulings.
Our holy sages tell us one issuing false rulins looses his portion in the WORLD TO COME.
THIS IS A SERIOUS MATTER.

 
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